Half-Term Report

Discussion on Peterborough United only.

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Mig25
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Joined: 14 Sep 2021, 21:12

Re: Half-Term Report

Post by Mig25 »

ashman wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 01:39
Mig25 wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 21:04 This is a football forum, not a therapy forum for berieved nuns.

The comment earlier by the moderator of "Where have all the genuine fans gone?" is frankly insulting to those of us who travel home and away to support the team. Where is it stated that you can only post on here if you think everything is fine? If you criticise DF for his tactics or inability to motivate the players, are you therefore not a genuine fan?

A while back, the moderator suggested that if some players read this forum, they may get upset by comments made by posters on here. What????

I shall be at the Reading game and if I see players not pulling their weight, I shall let rip from my seat. It happens at every other ground so why should LR be any different? If I consider that DF has made a formation howler or needs to change it fast, I shall shout it out too. If the moderator feels that this makes me a non-genuine fan because I don't go along with his "Fergie is untouchable" stance, then all I can do is apologize......not.

This is a football forum and if criticism of players or the manager is frowned upon, the forum should close.
Constructive criticism is always welcomed, but posts suggesting getting rid of the manager and owner and that players, costing the club a fortune in wages that cannot be maintained, should be bought are ridiculous. The last thing that any fan would appreciate is the club going into serious debt, administration and finally out of business. The way some misguided posters think is a guaranteed route to just that. The club has never been in a more successful position than it is just now, in the Championship, completely solvent and planning a new Arena for team and the local community. We may have to suffer a relegation this season but we will be well equipped for life in a lower division. The alternative view is to get rid of our most successful manager and owner, revert to the bad old days of the seventies and eighties, and have to put up with extremely poor games week in week out and with the managers scratching around trying to find enough money to pay the wages! That could easily be the outcome of getting rid of the present manager and owner.
I agree with most of your points in the reply although you avoided addressing the points made in my 5 paragraphs.
I'm a supporter who thinks that DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble. What I don't agree with is your conviction that DF is the only man for the job. He's achieved success in L1 and L2 thanks to, IMO, great investment and players due to DM money.
Allow rational Posh fans to disagree with you on this forum mate. Happy Xmas
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ashman
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by ashman »

Mig25 wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:15 I agree with most of your points in the reply although you avoided addressing the points made in my 5 paragraphs.
I'm a supporter who thinks that DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble. What I don't agree with is your conviction that DF is the only man for the job. He's achieved success in L1 and L2 thanks to, IMO, great investment and players due to DM money.
Happy Xmas
You have said it yourself with "DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble." :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

What you have failed to mention is that the delight that we have had in our team has all been at the hands of Darren Ferguson.

It has almost been proved that getting rid of Darren Ferguson results in a considerably worse Posh squad and poorer results. Consider the alternatives we have had in between DF's three terms of being in charge!
Mark Cooper, Jim Gannon, Gary Johnson, Dave Robertson, Graham Westley, Grant McCann, Steve Evans. None of those characters have really worked enough to be given extended runs looking after our club. Happy Christmas and I hope we can have an improved set of results in the coming year!
'Everybody needs to have a friend'
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bristleposh
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by bristleposh »

ashman wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:35
Mig25 wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:15 I agree with most of your points in the reply although you avoided addressing the points made in my 5 paragraphs.
I'm a supporter who thinks that DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble. What I don't agree with is your conviction that DF is the only man for the job. He's achieved success in L1 and L2 thanks to, IMO, great investment and players due to DM money.
Happy Xmas
You have said it yourself with "DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble." :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

What you have failed to mention is that the delight that we have had in our team has all been at the hands of Darren Ferguson.

It has almost been proved that getting rid of Darren Ferguson results in a considerably worse Posh squad and poorer results. Consider the alternatives we have had in between DF's three terms of being in charge!
Mark Cooper, Jim Gannon, Gary Johnson, Dave Robertson, Graham Westley, Grant McCann, Steve Evans. None of those characters have really worked enough to be given extended runs looking after our club. Happy Christmas and I hope we can have an improved set of results in the coming year!
You fail to mention our most successful manager during that period, 2 periods in charge and a 100% record in each one.
This season witnessed four games
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ashman
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by ashman »

bristleposh wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:49 You fail to mention our most successful manager during that period, 2 periods in charge and a 100% record in each one.
Now you are being silly!
David Oldfield in charge for one game, January 11th. 2011 won one, 100% record.
David Oldfield 25th-28th. February 2018 again played one and won one.
In both instances he wasn't actually the manager, but was appointed as a caretaker manager!
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Mig25
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by Mig25 »

And what you've failed to do is respond to my 5 paragraphs in the original post.
It's not hard.
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bristleposh
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by bristleposh »

ashman wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 20:12
bristleposh wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:49 You fail to mention our most successful manager during that period, 2 periods in charge and a 100% record in each one.
Now you are being silly!
David Oldfield in charge for one game, January 11th. 2011 won one, 100% record.
David Oldfield 25th-28th. February 2018 again played one and won one.
In both instances he wasn't actually the manager, but was appointed as a caretaker manager!
No other manager in that period caretaker or permanent has a 100% record
This season witnessed four games
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JohnC
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by JohnC »

Mig25 wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 20:46 And what you've failed to do is respond to my 5 paragraphs in the original post.
It's not hard.
Let me try.

This is a football forum, not a therapy forum for berieved nuns.
It certainly says 'forum' at the top of the page -- not 'chorus of approval'.

The comment earlier by the moderator of "Where have all the genuine fans gone?" is frankly insulting to those of us who travel home and away to support the team. Where is it stated that you can only post on here if you think everything is fine? If you criticise DF for his tactics or inability to motivate the players, are you therefore not a genuine fan?
The clear implication is that feeling dissatisfaction, disappointment, frustration and/or anger at our performances this season disqualifies one from the category of 'genuine' fans. The citizens who praised the emperor's sartorial elegance as he paraded naked through the streets were 'genuine' and supportive -- not sycophants.

A while back, the moderator suggested that if some players read this forum, they may get upset by comments made by posters on here. What????
I remember that post. What I don't remember was reading any criticism of the manager for upsetting Christy Pym, and I don't remember much in the way of criticism of the Chairman's 'buttercup' jibe aimed at Joe Ward.
I had occasion to post this last season:
'Expressing negative or critical opinions is not tantamount to treachery or disloyalty or ignorance. Splice together a few of the manager’s own post-match (Crewe, Blackpool, Chorley,) comments and you’d have a string of critical comments. '

I shall be at the Reading game and if I see players not pulling their weight, I shall let rip from my seat. It happens at every other ground so why should LR be any different? If I consider that DF has made a formation howler or needs to change it fast, I shall shout it out too. If the moderator feels that this makes me a non-genuine fan because I don't go along with his "Fergie is untouchable" stance, then all I can do is apologize......not.
Had you been at Blackpool to see Tomlinson and Burrows choose to indulge in a (botched) passing seminar near our penalty area --apparently regarding it as an appropriate response to falling behind in the 86th minute -- you might have felt an oncoming attack of 'Non-Genuine Fan Syndrome (no vaccination available.) 'Poor lads. They're only young. They're doing their best' is apparently what you should be thinking; not '************** ! Who coaches these young players to think that that was the appropriate approach in that situation?'
JohnC
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by JohnC »

ashman wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:35
Mig25 wrote: 20 Dec 2021, 19:15 I agree with most of your points in the reply although you avoided addressing the points made in my 5 paragraphs.
I'm a supporter who thinks that DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble. What I don't agree with is your conviction that DF is the only man for the job. He's achieved success in L1 and L2 thanks to, IMO, great investment and players due to DM money.
Happy Xmas
You have said it yourself with "DM regenerated our club, invested in it and brought delight to posters on here. I agree that reckless signings will get us into financial trouble." :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

What you have failed to mention is that the delight that we have had in our team has all been at the hands of Darren Ferguson.

It has almost been proved that getting rid of Darren Ferguson results in a considerably worse Posh squad and poorer results. Consider the alternatives we have had in between DF's three terms of being in charge!
Mark Cooper, Jim Gannon, Gary Johnson, Dave Robertson, Graham Westley, Grant McCann, Steve Evans. None of those characters have really worked enough to be given extended runs looking after our club. Happy Christmas and I hope we can have an improved set of results in the coming year!
'It has almost been proved' is another way of saying 'It hasn't been proved' -- although how such proof might be established is a bit of a headscratcher.

None of those characters have really worked enough to be given extended runs
Evans -- to the best of my recollection --secured L2 and L1 back-to-back promotions with Rotherham, followed by survival in the ensuing Championship season. Johnson, operating on a shoestring budget, got Yeovil promoted to the Championship in 2013, passing Posh heading in the opposite direction. Neither Johnson nor Evans was allowed a full season in charge at Peterborough.

Citing the list of managerial appointments is a bit of a back-handed way of complimenting the chairman's judgement.

'....a considerably worse Posh squad....'
Ferguson certainly got good mileage out of Johnson signings McCann and Tomlin. On his third time around, he inherited Toney, Dembele and Godden.

As for player-evaluation, here's the chairman on Szmodics last season:
Sammie can go as high and as far as he wants in football....Sammie would be unbelievable for us in the Championship if we went up."
HantsPosh
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by HantsPosh »

I'm not for one minute saying we should get rid either Darragh (I love his commitment to the club and his covid rants which I agree with 100%) I just wish he would stop making players out to be world beaters when they are anything but. Beevers was Captain of a promoted team but has just been made a scapegoat like Pym was yet JCH is untouchable despite his repeated lacklustre performances game after game after game.

And if we can't have a moan on a forum then where can we? I'd rather vent my spleen about players on here than shout at them in the stadium. I'll support them wholeheartedly in the stadium (even JCH) as slating them from the stands does no good in my opinion.

But maybe instead of a forum we should just have the words to the 'everything is awesome' song from the Lego Movie play across the screen for us all to sing along too after we lose away from home again
JohnC
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by JohnC »

ashman wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 20:01
JohnC wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 18:02
ashman wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 17:50
It's all about opinions and if you talk to maybe 90% of Posh supporters, getting rid of Darragh or Darren is a non starter!
I wouldn't claim to speak for 90% of Posh supporters, and I was not/am not advocating 'getting rid' of Darragh. (How that might be effected I'm not quite sure.) I'm not of the view that our manager -- any manager -- is irreplaceable. It didn't take long for Leicester City to get rid of Claudio Ranieri during the season following their EPL title, and they've fared quite well since then.
We are not Leicester City with the millions behind them!
My point was not about relative wealth -- many of Leicester's closest rivals could comfortably have outspent them at the time -- but rather that their owners deemed that a manager with a whole vault-full of goodwill accrued as recently as the previous season was not 'bulletproof'. And Leicester have prospered -- albeit not immediately -- since then.
JohnC
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by JohnC »

bristleposh wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 23:10
JohnC wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 17:18
bristleposh wrote: 19 Dec 2021, 09:35 I can tell your not a happy bunny, we are Posh, we play in a certain manner and have done for most of the past twenty years. As you say teams have worked out what they are, picking out individuals for criticism is not helpful. Especially when Edwards and Norburn are currently our best two players. It is the system and the manager's diktat, or more to the point the owner's diktat. The amount of money that he has invested in the club he is entitled to have his opinion. If he enjoys watching pretty football ending in defeat, every week, that ultimately will cost him money then perhaps you should be directing your criticism at him. Cut off the head of the snake and we may end up like Bury, Gateshead, Scarborough, and Rushden. Which was where we headed before his intervention.
Dembele doesn't make it into our top two players rankings?
It's all about opinions and in mine no
Luton spent several years out of the Football League (2009-14?). Both Coventry and Blackpool have endured horrendous off-pitch difficulties in recent years. They have all survived adversity and seem to be coping well with life in the Championship.
Coventry. Blackpool and Luton don't get crowds of 8,000 home fans for games in the Championship, and didn't get crowds of 4000 in league two
Nor do we. Currently our Championship average home attendance is 10,140 --
There isn't, obviously, a direct correlation between average attendance and success.
Second-placed Bournemouth attract 10,010, fourteenth-placed Luton get 9,922, while 19th-placed Blackpool average 11,859. Coventry, in eighth place, are packing them in to the tune of 19,816
In the past, low-attendance clubs like Wimbledon, Wigan and Bournemouth have managed to survive at the top level for a number of years on quite small attendances.
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bristleposh
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by bristleposh »

JohnC wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 00:34 Nor do we. Currently our Championship average home attendance is 10,140 --
There isn't, obviously, a direct correlation between average attendance and success.
Second-placed Bournemouth attract 10,010, fourteenth-placed Luton get 9,922, while 19th-placed Blackpool average 11,859. Coventry, in eighth place, are packing them in to the tune of 19,816
In the past, low-attendance clubs like Wimbledon, Wigan and Bournemouth have managed to survive at the top level for a number of years on quite small attendances.
My mistake, we are a big club, it must be my knowledge of history and current affairs that is wrong.
This season witnessed four games
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JohnC
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by JohnC »

bristleposh wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 09:51
JohnC wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 00:34 Nor do we. Currently our Championship average home attendance is 10,140 --
There isn't, obviously, a direct correlation between average attendance and success.
Second-placed Bournemouth attract 10,010, fourteenth-placed Luton get 9,922, while 19th-placed Blackpool average 11,859. Coventry, in eighth place, are packing them in to the tune of 19,816
In the past, low-attendance clubs like Wimbledon, Wigan and Bournemouth have managed to survive at the top level for a number of years on quite small attendances.
My mistake, we are a big club, it must be my knowledge of history and current affairs that is wrong.
It was certainly a mistake to misrepresent our home attendance as approximately 20% less than it actually is. I didn't claim that we are a 'big club', any more than when -- on the Posh v Reading thread --my opinion that Edwards lacked pace, and didn't seem strong in the air equated to labelling him 'useless'. Seeking to discredit an opinion with which one differs by misrepresentation through exaggeration is an old trick for old dogs.

As far as 'big club' status is concerned: we can look down to League One to see a number of 'big clubs': Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, Charlton, Bolton.... Rotherham, Wycombe and Plymouth are ahead of most of them at the moment, though.

Your 'knowledge of history' probably encompasses our 1991-92 League Cup victory over 'big club' Liverpool. Arguably a more impressive accomplishment was in getting past 'small club' Wimbledon in a home-and-away tie earlier in the competition. Wimbledon finished 13th in the top flight that season.
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bristleposh
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Re: Half-Term Report

Post by bristleposh »

JohnC wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 14:41
bristleposh wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 09:51
JohnC wrote: 23 Dec 2021, 00:34 Nor do we. Currently our Championship average home attendance is 10,140 --
There isn't, obviously, a direct correlation between average attendance and success.
Second-placed Bournemouth attract 10,010, fourteenth-placed Luton get 9,922, while 19th-placed Blackpool average 11,859. Coventry, in eighth place, are packing them in to the tune of 19,816
In the past, low-attendance clubs like Wimbledon, Wigan and Bournemouth have managed to survive at the top level for a number of years on quite small attendances.
My mistake, we are a big club, it must be my knowledge of history and current affairs that is wrong.

It was certainly a mistake to misrepresent our home attendance as approximately 20% less than it actually is.
I didn't claim that we are a 'big club', any more than when -- on the Posh v Reading thread --my opinion that Edwards lacked pace, and didn't seem strong in the air equated to labelling him 'useless'. Seeking to discredit an opinion with which one differs by misrepresentation through exaggeration is an old trick for old dogs.

As far as 'big club' status is concerned: we can look down to League One to see a number of 'big clubs': Sunderland, Portsmouth, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, Charlton, Bolton.... Rotherham, Wycombe and Plymouth are ahead of most of them at the moment, though.

Your 'knowledge of history' probably encompasses our 1991-92 League Cup victory over 'big club' Liverpool. Arguably a more impressive accomplishment was in getting past 'small club' Wimbledon in a home-and-away tie earlier in the competition. Wimbledon finished 13th in the top flight that season.
The 20% less was quite accurate when I’d referred to home fans. When we have been in the championship it has been usual for us to cede the Moys end to away fans as well as the bit in the main stands. If you take that away from our total attendance, I think my 8,000 home fans was quite generous
This season witnessed four games
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