Catalan Uprising

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daib0
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Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 01 Oct 2017, 18:53

My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.

Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.

What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".

Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.

So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.

Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:

https://twitter.com/RitaBosaho/status/9 ... 4130424832

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/statu ... 7910705152

Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality :cry:

David
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bristleposh
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by bristleposh » 01 Oct 2017, 20:07

I saw the Julian Assange one on Twitter, quite brutal, back to the days of Franco I think. What has happened with the Basques they seem to be very quiet.
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 01 Oct 2017, 22:15

bristleposh wrote:
01 Oct 2017, 20:07
I saw the Julian Assange one on Twitter, quite brutal, back to the days of Franco I think. What has happened with the Basques they seem to be very quiet.
looks like the two leaders of the Catalan regional government are opening up the doors to a possible declaration of outright independence second half of this coming week. The fact that they are not allowed to have a nationally agreed referendum makes them want to use this one, with all its shortcomings, as definitive.

It's not a case of Catalonia being rich and not wanting to help the poorer off regions, this has all to do with Madrid being the big boss and not listening to the Catalan voice during many a year. It's against the capital, but not against any Spanish region as such.

The Basque push has diminished somewhat but there is still a sizeable chunk of the population who are for the cause still which could/might easily reignite if they see a free and successful Catalonia. In fact, I live on the edge of the Basque region, in Navarre ... 
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 02 Oct 2017, 09:52

before this weekend the independence feel was like Scotland, about 47 to 53%. After these barbarous images it's probably gone up 15%, and the international press have clearly seen what's gone on.

In a new video one can see a couple of policeman deliberately breaking a lady's fingers, then knock her half way down the stairs where they fondle her breats, laughing at each other ... and I thought Stevenage FC was bad enough
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 02 Oct 2017, 16:57

Excuse the what you might see as my obsession on this. I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife Rosa is Catalan...and got plenty of Catalan friends
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 03 Oct 2017, 13:14

by the way, Pique booed fiercely at Spain's training camp. He was in tears afterwards...

https://youtu.be/Ym5rCmL3Z30
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by DaveLister » 13 Oct 2017, 12:23

daib0 wrote:
03 Oct 2017, 13:14
by the way, Pique booed fiercely at Spain's training camp. He was in tears afterwards...

https://youtu.be/Ym5rCmL3Z30
I understood that Pique was booed because he voted in a referendum that Madrid claimed to be illegal? How can a referendum be illegal?
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by bristleposh » 13 Oct 2017, 15:16

DaveLister wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 12:23
daib0 wrote:
03 Oct 2017, 13:14
by the way, Pique booed fiercely at Spain's training camp. He was in tears afterwards...

https://youtu.be/Ym5rCmL3Z30
I understood that Pique was booed because he voted in a referendum that Madrid claimed to be illegal? How can a referendum be illegal?
Even I can understand that bit, the area between France and Portugal is ruled by a government in Madrid, for any referendum to be legal it would have needed to be put in place by that government, this one was not.
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DaveLister
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by DaveLister » 13 Oct 2017, 15:19

Yes Nick, but in a democracy people still have the right to vote. It can't be compared to Scotland imo, since Sturgeon will keep on demanding a referendum until she gets the result she wants. Not exactly the will of the people.
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 13 Oct 2017, 16:51

bristleposh wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 15:16
DaveLister wrote:
13 Oct 2017, 12:23
daib0 wrote:
03 Oct 2017, 13:14
by the way, Pique booed fiercely at Spain's training camp. He was in tears afterwards...

https://youtu.be/Ym5rCmL3Z30
I understood that Pique was booed because he voted in a referendum that Madrid claimed to be illegal? How can a referendum be illegal?
Even I can understand that bit, the area between France and Portugal is ruled by a government in Madrid, for any referendum to be legal it would have needed to be put in place by that government, this one was not.
not only that, the government (PP party) and two opposition parties (PSOE and C's) in Madrid are saying that any future refereendum on the independence of Catalonia would have to be voted by the ENTIRE Spanish electorate and not by Catalans themselves; so you'd have people 1000kms away in Galicia and Andalucia decide the future of Catalonia. Obviously totally unacceptable. Like the WHOLE of the EU voting whether the UK should Brexit or not, or the whole of Russia help voting on whether Lithuania should remain independent. However, the two-faced thing is that in Gibraltar's case the Spanish government are vehemently AGAINST the British people voting or even the Gibraltan people themselves - no, there the change of sovereinty should only be negotiated from the political offices, exactly what they refuse to do for Catalonia!!!
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 21 Oct 2017, 23:07

BBC News

Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Starts: Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to impose direct rule on the region. He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional autonomy was dissolved. Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders and curbs on its parliament.

Complete article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41710873
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by stuie » 22 Oct 2017, 17:05

daib0 wrote:
21 Oct 2017, 23:07
BBC News

Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Starts: Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to impose direct rule on the region. He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional autonomy was dissolved. Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders and curbs on its parliament.

Complete article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41710873
Not looking good
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 30 Oct 2017, 16:45

now there's talk of political asylum for five of the independence leaders in Belguim. The very thought that it's classed as asylum shows you how bad it's getting; thirty years jail sentences being brandied about by those in Madrid against those who are truly peaceful. Gutted...
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by bristleposh » 30 Oct 2017, 18:42

The leaders of Catalonia seem to have overestimated the feelings of the populace in much the same way that those that govern in Sweatyland thought there was a chance of their getting devolution against the Unionists. The referendum result, albeit illegal, showed a massive percentage in favour, sadly the majority didn't vote.
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Re: Catalan Uprising

Post by daib0 » 01 Nov 2017, 12:14

Latest from the BBC:



Catalan independence: Spain high court summons dismissed leader

Spain's high court has summoned sacked Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and 13 other members of his dismissed government to appear later this week. It also gave them three days to pay a deposit of €6.2m ($7.2m) to cover potential liabilities. The summons comes after Spain's chief prosecutor on Monday said he would press charges including rebellion.

Full report: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41825030



This has only just started !!!
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