Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 16 Nov 2018, 10:25

I don't think anybody would disagree with your analogy. Jeremy Corbyn can't even sort out his own dress code, to see the Labour party in such dissarray at this crucial time is the most damaging thing of all, although not since Kier Hardy has their ever been a Labour politician with an ounce of gumption. The British public were asked the question do you want to stay in the EU or leave it, it wasn't a rocket science question it was a simple case of do we want out or in. I thinki the way over the past forty odd years that Europe has taxed us, forced upon us all sorts of criminals from as far afield as the Asian border, tampered with our laws, told our fishermen what they can and cannot catch, whilst giving carte blanche to other nations. I personally thought the only option was to skilladdle. The vote went for that so why all these problems if the Sweaties and the Taffs are not happy with the situation let them break up the union along with an Independent Northern Ireland I'm sure England would be financially far better off without them. Hadrian had the right idea and Offa for that matter.
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trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 16 Nov 2018, 10:47

Poshay wrote:
16 Nov 2018, 08:56


Are you referring to those people who were denied a referendum in 1954 as to whether the UK should become a multi racial and multicultural country?
I do not know about this non-referendum, how would I find out about it?

there was no tradition (or perhaps precedent?) for a referendum before the 1970's (when the UK had two) so how was it denied?

the United kingdom had been something of a multiracial country, and certainly multicultural country for hundreds of years

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Poshay
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by Poshay » 16 Nov 2018, 13:31

trevormans wrote:
16 Nov 2018, 10:47
Poshay wrote:
16 Nov 2018, 08:56


Are you referring to those people who were denied a referendum in 1954 as to whether the UK should become a multi racial and multicultural country?
I do not know about this non-referendum, how would I find out about it?

there was no tradition (or perhaps precedent?) for a referendum before the 1970's (when the UK had two) so how was it denied?

the United kingdom had been something of a multiracial country, and certainly multicultural country for hundreds of years
The change in this country's population since 1954 has had a far more significant impact than merely leaving the EU. Nobody asked us if we wanted this fundamental change.
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matt404
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by matt404 » 16 Nov 2018, 14:09

bristleposh wrote:
15 Nov 2018, 17:10
I blame these old folks who voted to leave, you know the ones who fought in the war, underwent rationing, saw off the Battle of Britain, selfish ******** only think of themselves.
It's those darn pesky youngsters - the relatives of those older folk who fought in the war, underwent rationing, saw off the Battle of Britain - who looked back at the history their older, wiser family told them and saw that perhaps a united Europe, a Union of countries if you will, would be their best hope in order not to have to die in a war on the continent (or undergo rationing or have to fight the second Battle of Britain), over the divisive politics of nationalism that decimated two generations in the last hundred years.
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 16 Nov 2018, 18:57

[
Poshay wrote:
16 Nov 2018, 08:56



The change in this country's population since 1954 has had a far more significant impact than merely leaving the EU. Nobody asked us if we wanted this fundamental change.
Sorry, I am genuinely missing your point here.

What happened in 1954 (or didn't happen)?

Was there some key event which I've missed ?

Surely not Windrush which had happened several years before??

I do accept that we have a had a remarkable change in the number of ex-colonists who have moved here, and there are many many benefits (as well as downsides) to it

But as we had uninvitedly invaded and exploited their countries for two centuries and more, and that as such the UK had had a massively significant effect on their countries in that time (and nobody asked them if they wanted it to happen) was it not appropriate that we should each share the benefits of each of our cultures?

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Poshay
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by Poshay » 16 Nov 2018, 20:10

Thanks for clearing up my confusion. Of course the Windrush first landed its passengers in 1948 ; 1954 was when it sank. The newsreels of the time showed its earlier voyages along with the pictures of it on fire, hence my confusion. Yes some immigration has been fine ; on a personal basis it was an Indian surgeon who in 1960 saved my foot after an accident. His boss, the consultant, said he would have amputated it. All the same I think the British people should have been consulted , some estimates of the immigrant population in the next few years as being almost a third of the total UK's, which is quite a fundamental change. .
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trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 18 Nov 2018, 10:31

I agree that the sovereign nation should have been consulted
But neither India nor Africa was ever consulted when we invaded and colonised them but so much of that is conveniently forgotten when we look back at the 1950s ad the halcyon days

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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 18 Nov 2018, 10:38

trevormans wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 10:31
I agree that the sovereign nation should have been consulted
But neither India nor Africa was ever consulted when we invaded and colonised them but so much of that is conveniently forgotten when we look back at the 1950s ad the halcyon days
Perhaps instead of a vote we should have did what the ref did in that women's game and get the captain's to play rock/paper/scissors, if the remainers had lost we could have easily made it best of three or then best of five until they got the result they wanted. The majority of those that could be bothered to vote voted for leave. that really should be the end of it
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matt404
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by matt404 » 18 Nov 2018, 10:59

Genuinely curious - would you draw the same parallel with having a General Election? Or would you accept that in a democracy the people can change their mind, hence why different political parties have been in power over all our lifetimes.
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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 18 Nov 2018, 14:16

matt404 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 10:59
Genuinely curious - would you draw the same parallel with having a General Election? Or would you accept that in a democracy the people can change their mind, hence why different political parties have been in power over all our lifetimes.
Not a bit of it I had to put up with Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown, once the country got in a mess it was clear we'd get another election to put things right. An election is a one off event had we voted to remain I would have been perfectly happy with the status quo
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trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 18 Nov 2018, 17:00

as so many of the "Certainties" told by the brexiteers (major brexit dividend, ease of securing trade deals worldwise (40 on day one said Fox) no cost to leaving, German car manufacturers would veto the deal, 90 million turks would swamp our country immediately, 350 millions to the NHS , etc etc) as we have now found that none of these are true, and now that we know that the leave campaign has been found to be in breach of electoral law) and as Mrs May sought an endorsement of her position in the last election and did not get it , and now that out parliament has made it clear that we would be better off staying within the EU and that we now see that our currency has already been devalued by some 15% (with probably more to come) then I believe that it is astonishing that anybody can argue that a further democratic vote would be anti democratic.

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ashman
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by ashman » 18 Nov 2018, 17:13

.... and breathe and full stop and capital letter .......... :shock: :roll:
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trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 18 Nov 2018, 17:53

I am undercapitalised

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matt404
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by matt404 » 18 Nov 2018, 21:26

bristleposh wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 14:16
matt404 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 10:59
Genuinely curious - would you draw the same parallel with having a General Election? Or would you accept that in a democracy the people can change their mind, hence why different political parties have been in power over all our lifetimes.
Not a bit of it I had to put up with Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown, once the country got in a mess it was clear we'd get another election to put things right. An election is a one off event had we voted to remain I would have been perfectly happy with the status quo
Thanks. So by that rationale your opinion is, we voted to join the union 40 years ago, that’s good enough. Therefore we shouldn’t have had a vote to get out of it two years ago and those who were disgruntled and wanted to leave should have just got on with it and backed the EU to succeed instead of being anti-democratic and asking for an opportunity to change their minds, demanding to keep their voices heard until they get the results they wanted.
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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 18 Nov 2018, 22:32

matt404 wrote:
18 Nov 2018, 21:26


Thanks. So by that rationale your opinion is, we voted to join the union 40 years ago,my memory is not that good, but I don’t recall us having a vote to join. There was a vote a bit later to see if we should stay that’s good enough. Therefore we shouldn’t have had a vote to get out of it two years ago and those who were disgruntled and wanted to leave should have just got on with it and backed the EU to succeed instead of being anti-democratic and asking for an opportunity to change their minds, demanding to keep their voices heard until they get the results they wanted.
All I remember was De Gaul saying Non every time we tried to join. In the honeymoon period it didn’t seem to be a problem being part of a European Union but as it broadened to encompass the poorer nations of Eastern Europe, who came here en masse, using our benefit system, increasing crime (we have enough bad ‘uns already) putting massive amounts of cash into the pot to support these poorer nations. All in all I think it was the right thing to do to pull the plug on the drain on our resources.
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