Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

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trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 23 Nov 2017, 20:56

bristleposh wrote:
12 Nov 2017, 19:14
White G wrote:
12 Nov 2017, 15:48
Socialism is a frowned upon word but what actually does this mean potentially for the UK? Railways going back into public hands? I for one have no problem with that as it still works all over Europe & privatisation has been a disaster. There's no doubt that any model has weakness but a completely free-market economy will not work, nor will communism. We need to get back to being somewhere in the middle if you ask me.
I certainly agree with the privatising bit, that was probably the worst bit of the Heath/Thatcher regime.


A far worse bit than mere privatisation was that thatcherism encouraged the get rich quick approach,(including privatisation at get rich quick prices) and without a general feeling of concern for the wellbeing for the whole country. No wonder there were almost no Tories in scotland Wales or Ulster for almost 20 years. She had abandoned them

It has led to the massive emergence of the financial sector to the detriment of all others, the complete southeast domination, and the complete lack of investment in each of manufacturing, infrastructure and in housing. The lack of a serious regional policy has compounded the errors.

Todays report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies has demonstrated that the policy of austerity has stifled growth, stopped the economy growing to the detriment of infrastructure, the NHS, prisons, schools and caused a standstill, at best, on wages, to almost all but the fortunate ones in the finance sector. The deficit is still with us without serious prospect of growth
and the twerp osborne (son of a baronet)dared to say "we are all in it together", whist stifling growth with his narrow minded policies., and ignoring all Keynesian principles.

The banking sector, not the labour party, were the major cause of the 2008 recession. Yet thatchers children got away with it, and Cameron blamed Labour

At the referendum we were described as the fifth biggest economy. Now the chancellor acknowledges we are the sixth, and falling. The nonsense, the catastrophe of brexit has barely hit us, , it will be like a tsunami.

Strong and stable??

We have the weakest government for 60 years , trumped only by the least cohesive (ie ineffective) Loyal Opposition for 80 years

Private Frazer would have a good phrase for it

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stuie
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by stuie » 23 Nov 2017, 21:18

trevormans wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 20:56
bristleposh wrote:
12 Nov 2017, 19:14
White G wrote:
12 Nov 2017, 15:48
Socialism is a frowned upon word but what actually does this mean potentially for the UK? Railways going back into public hands? I for one have no problem with that as it still works all over Europe & privatisation has been a disaster. There's no doubt that any model has weakness but a completely free-market economy will not work, nor will communism. We need to get back to being somewhere in the middle if you ask me.
I certainly agree with the privatising bit, that was probably the worst bit of the Heath/Thatcher regime.


A far worse bit than mere privatisation was that thatcherism encouraged the get rich quick approach,(including privatisation at get rich quick prices) and without a general feeling of concern for the wellbeing for the whole country. No wonder there were almost no Tories in scotland Wales or Ulster for almost 20 years. She had abandoned them

It has led to the massive emergence of the financial sector to the detriment of all others, the complete southeast domination, and the complete lack of investment in each of manufacturing, infrastructure and in housing. The lack of a serious regional policy has compounded the errors.

Todays report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies has demonstrated that the policy of austerity has stifled growth, stopped the economy growing to the detriment of infrastructure, the NHS, prisons, schools and caused a standstill, at best, on wages, to almost all but the fortunate ones in the finance sector. The deficit is still with us without serious prospect of growth
and the twerp osborne (son of a baronet)dared to say "we are all in it together", whist stifling growth with his narrow minded policies., and ignoring all Keynesian principles.

The banking sector, not the labour party, were the major cause of the 2008 recession. Yet thatchers children got away with it, and Cameron blamed Labour

At the referendum we were described as the fifth biggest economy. Now the chancellor acknowledges we are the sixth, and falling. The nonsense, the catastrophe of brexit has barely hit us, , it will be like a tsunami.

Strong and stable??

We have the weakest government for 60 years , trumped only by the least cohesive (ie ineffective) Loyal Opposition for 80 years

Private Frazer would have a good phrase for it
Interesting read, its not looking very good at the moment, that is for sure
Plymouth to Portsmouth 2017 -2018, that ain't far

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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 23 Nov 2017, 23:46

Perhaps the Bartley and Lucas party could do better, or maybe we could ship in Mugabe I beleive he's out of a job at the moment
I started a joke that had the whole world crying
But I didn't see that the joke was on me

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stuie
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by stuie » 24 Nov 2017, 09:51

bristleposh wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 23:46
Perhaps the Bartley and Lucas party could do better, or maybe we could ship in Mugabe I beleive he's out of a job at the moment
Democracy is the worst form of Government, until you consider the alternatives - Winston Churchill
Plymouth to Portsmouth 2017 -2018, that ain't far

trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 24 Nov 2017, 12:50

bristleposh wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 23:46
Perhaps the Bartley and Lucas party could do better, or maybe we could ship in Mugabe I beleive he's out of a job at the moment
I am not convinced that either of your suggestions would be suitable, but the point remains that the Tories spouted ad nauseam about their economic competence, and the Labour recession, when their policies were in fact full of self-seeking round objects.

A Tory mp, (a Tory mp!) said yesterday that the Tories risk being defined as " a narrow party of nostalgia, hard Brexit , public sector austerity and lazy privilege"

I can find no word there that anybody with an IQ in double figures could disagree with.

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stuie
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by stuie » 24 Nov 2017, 14:30

trevormans wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 12:50
bristleposh wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 23:46
Perhaps the Bartley and Lucas party could do better, or maybe we could ship in Mugabe I beleive he's out of a job at the moment
I am not convinced that either of your suggestions would be suitable, but the point remains that the Tories spouted ad nauseam about their economic competence, and the Labour recession, when their policies were in fact full of self-seeking round objects.

A Tory mp, (a Tory mp!) said yesterday that the Tories risk being defined as " a narrow party of nostalgia, hard Brexit , public sector austerity and lazy privilege"

I can find no word there that anybody with an IQ in double figures could disagree with.
I am a Tory voter, and have written to my Tory MP, about much the same, I agree with the statement above :oops:

When the tide rises all boats should go up, and on a low tide all boats should go down, and non should be sinking

we are becoming not a Victorian country, more like a medieval country, the rich building walls, and sod the rest (of course there are exceptions)

By the way, that does not mean new labour are off the hook, or that a Cobyn government would do any better

There should be a middle party, representing most peoples views, this is not the liberal democrats, with what they stand for, by the way, a new party
Plymouth to Portsmouth 2017 -2018, that ain't far

trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 24 Nov 2017, 16:44

stuie wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 09:51


Democracy is the worst form of Government, until you consider the alternatives - Winston Churchill
Succinct , true and witty




a bit like ....

"sex is all right but its nothing like the real thing"

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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 24 Nov 2017, 17:25

trevormans wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 16:44
stuie wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 09:51


Democracy is the worst form of Government, until you consider the alternatives - Winston Churchill
Succinct , true and witty




a bit like ....

"sex is all right but its nothing like the real thing"
That is very profound I totally agree with it and have always been a Merchant
I started a joke that had the whole world crying
But I didn't see that the joke was on me

trevormans
Posts: 190
Joined: 11 May 2013, 20:21

Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 28 Nov 2017, 19:57

“So now we have the utter bonkersness of the Secretary for Brexit not telling our allegedly sovereign parliament exactly what he believes the size of the economic (and other) catastrophe that the Brexit vote is going to bring upon us, because he and only a few others have seen just how bad it is. Be in no doubt it will be diabolically bad for the vast majority. If it were not then there would be no rush for the exit. The reason is given that it will “ wreck our negotiating position “ The reality is that it will make the populace realise that it is far worse than what they had thought. The Tory Press refers to the “will of the people” , The reality of course is it is no such thing when more than 63% of the population have not voted for it. This is the single biggest decision this country has made since late summer 1939 , it cannot be left to rely on utter lies and misinformation and be dressed up as the will of the people , and people who do not support it are "enemies of the people, mutineers and such like" . If the economic papers are made known then I fully believe that there will be such an upswell of public opinion that Brexit will not be allowed to go ahead in the format that Mrs Strong and Stable has put forth. In the meantime , the DUP make their stupid voices heard and the Tories are too weak to resist, potentially putting Peace in Ulster and the Good Friday Agreement at great risk. If anybody believes that this is "sovereignty of Parliament", if this is taking back control , if this is moving to the promised sunny uplands of Brexit, if this is how not to to wreck our farming in the uplands of Wales Northern England and Scotland, if this is how to stop immigration, if this is protection of the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, if this is £350m a week to the NHS , then it is clear to me that such people have kidded themselves all along. To my mind we are daft if we do not demand a proper referendum saying “this is the deal for Brexit it is nothing like what we said it will be, if you don’t like it then should we stay in or move towards oblivion?”

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White G
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by White G » 28 Nov 2017, 20:08

I still can't understand why anyone other than multi-millionaires vote Tory. They're destroying things and creating an even bigger divide in society, I cant think of one positive thing they've brought to the table, particularly now the "strong & stable" line can't be used.

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stuie
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by stuie » 28 Nov 2017, 23:54

White G wrote:
28 Nov 2017, 20:08
I still can't understand why anyone other than multi-millionaires vote Tory. They're destroying things and creating an even bigger divide in society, I cant think of one positive thing they've brought to the table, particularly now the "strong & stable" line can't be used.
I am not happy with the tories at the moment,(being a tory) however I still believe in caring capitalism, when I discuss politics with my friends, they say I should be voting labour with my views, and yes I could, but I do not believe in the Corbym model, and think , it would bankrupt the country

why is there not a sensible middle of the way, that meets the majority view

I do believe the rich are getting too rich,
Plymouth to Portsmouth 2017 -2018, that ain't far

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bristleposh
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by bristleposh » 29 Nov 2017, 04:33

trevormans wrote:
28 Nov 2017, 19:57
The reality of course is it is no such thing when more than 63% of the population have not voted for it.
Why do remoaners believe wrongly that the 28% of the sick, lame and lazy of the great British unwashed were all against leaving. They had the opportunity to vote but chose not to. If you are so against everything the caring sharing tories do, then why not leave the country and go and live in North Korea, Myanmar, or many other countries in Asia, Africa or South America, where you wouldn't get the opportunity to vote and definitely wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion.
I started a joke that had the whole world crying
But I didn't see that the joke was on me

trevormans
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by trevormans » 29 Nov 2017, 09:22

As so often, you miss the point, and this time you get your sums wrong at the same time
I have never said that the non-voters were against leaving. I have however pointed out that the rabidly brexiteer press have claimed and continue to claim (dog whistle style on the basis that they believe people will perhaps see the untruth as a truth ) that to do other than go ahead with Brexit then that is "against the will of the people", as if in some way I and others are “enemies of the people”.

This is by far the most important decision made since the 1930s , and to claim that "the will of the people" has been demonstrated when so few have voted for something is an utter absurdity. The press speak of the 17millions, but seldom mention the 16 millions who voted opposite.

A vote has been won, I have accepted that. However it was only by a slight percentage . it is clearly “not the will of the people”, when the country is so clearly split.
If “the will of the people “ clearly changes , as and when the utter nonsense of what we are going to get out of Brexit becomes clear, then it is fully appropriate that the people may asked be again, when we can all see how vexatious so many lies actually were.

To suggest I live elsewhere, because I differ in my views , is as Stalinist in its thinking as the invoking of the phrase “against the will of the people” from a doctrinaire press, and such a suggestion is barely becoming of a man of intelligence.
I would not expect better from you.
I am seldom disappointed

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stuie
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by stuie » 29 Nov 2017, 12:25

I am still for Brexit, however I am quite happy for a commons vote, if the deal is not acceptable, I think another referendum would be too complicated

I think a take it or leave it vote is disingenuous by the Government
Plymouth to Portsmouth 2017 -2018, that ain't far

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White G
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Re: Theresa May to make statement in Downing Street

Post by White G » 29 Nov 2017, 20:11

trevormans wrote:
29 Nov 2017, 09:22
As so often, you miss the point, and this time you get your sums wrong at the same time
I have never said that the non-voters were against leaving. I have however pointed out that the rabidly brexiteer press have claimed and continue to claim (dog whistle style on the basis that they believe people will perhaps see the untruth as a truth ) that to do other than go ahead with Brexit then that is "against the will of the people", as if in some way I and others are “enemies of the people”.

This is by far the most important decision made since the 1930s , and to claim that "the will of the people" has been demonstrated when so few have voted for something is an utter absurdity. The press speak of the 17millions, but seldom mention the 16 millions who voted opposite.

A vote has been won, I have accepted that. However it was only by a slight percentage . it is clearly “not the will of the people”, when the country is so clearly split.
If “the will of the people “ clearly changes , as and when the utter nonsense of what we are going to get out of Brexit becomes clear, then it is fully appropriate that the people may asked be again, when we can all see how vexatious so many lies actually were.

To suggest I live elsewhere, because I differ in my views , is as Stalinist in its thinking as the invoking of the phrase “against the will of the people” from a doctrinaire press, and such a suggestion is barely becoming of a man of intelligence.
I would not expect better from you.
I am seldom disappointed
I don't think Bristle understands the whole debating procedure. Rather than produce a counter-argunenthusiastic, it tends to be a report along the lines of "It'd be worse under Labour", or "leave the county if you have a problem". I'd like to hear positive counter-arguments but never get them off anybody when it comes to the Tories.

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